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	<title>Comments for Getting Stronger</title>
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	<link>http://gettingstronger.org</link>
	<description>Train yourself to thrive on stress</description>
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		<title>Comment on The Iceman by Todd</title>
		<link>http://gettingstronger.org/2012/01/the-iceman/comment-page-1/#comment-9370</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 15:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gettingstronger.org/?p=3678#comment-9370</guid>
		<description>Rodney,

There is actually some clinical evidence that cold immersion can reduce Raynaulds Phenomenon, at least in some cases.  Here are the conclusions of research reported by Dr. Frederick Wigley in his column in &lt;a href=&quot;http://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/alternative-therapies-for-raynauds/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The New York Times&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Patients with Raynaud’s phenomenon will acclimate to cold temperatures. In fact, Raynaud’s is worse during shifting temperatures, such as changing seasons (particularly the fall) than in the middle of the winter. In one study, we tried to trigger an attack with cold exposure by putting the hand in an ice box. We found that during the first visit, it triggered an attack about 70 percent of the time; during the second visit, it triggered an attack about 50 percent of the time; and during the third visit, we could trigger an attack only 30 percent of the time. We think this reduction of success of our cold challenge was due to acclimation to the exposure.More interesting, a group tried to reduce Raynaud’s by putting the hands in warm water while chilling the body; after several sessions, the cold exposure no longer caused Raynaud’s. The investigators suggested they had trained the fingers to be warm despite being in the cold.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I would suggest a gradual approach, building upon the Wigley study. It may take multiple exposures over several weeks, but see how it goes and let us know!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rodney,</p>
<p>There is actually some clinical evidence that cold immersion can reduce Raynaulds Phenomenon, at least in some cases.  Here are the conclusions of research reported by Dr. Frederick Wigley in his column in <a href="http://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/alternative-therapies-for-raynauds/" rel="nofollow">The New York Times</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Patients with Raynaud’s phenomenon will acclimate to cold temperatures. In fact, Raynaud’s is worse during shifting temperatures, such as changing seasons (particularly the fall) than in the middle of the winter. In one study, we tried to trigger an attack with cold exposure by putting the hand in an ice box. We found that during the first visit, it triggered an attack about 70 percent of the time; during the second visit, it triggered an attack about 50 percent of the time; and during the third visit, we could trigger an attack only 30 percent of the time. We think this reduction of success of our cold challenge was due to acclimation to the exposure.More interesting, a group tried to reduce Raynaud’s by putting the hands in warm water while chilling the body; after several sessions, the cold exposure no longer caused Raynaud’s. The investigators suggested they had trained the fingers to be warm despite being in the cold.</p></blockquote>
<p>I would suggest a gradual approach, building upon the Wigley study. It may take multiple exposures over several weeks, but see how it goes and let us know!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Iceman by Rodney</title>
		<link>http://gettingstronger.org/2012/01/the-iceman/comment-page-1/#comment-9368</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gettingstronger.org/?p=3678#comment-9368</guid>
		<description>Hi Todd!

I really enjoy your blog, and the writing on cold tolerance in particular.  I have Raynaud&#039;s, which though minor, still leaves my fingers and/or toes completely white without blood flow after SOME cold exposure.  The triggers are unpredictable, as sometimes minimal cold sets it off, other times I do fine with fairly cold exposure.

Do you see any possibility that I could learn to moderate or eliminate this condition through cold showers, or cold immersion?  My main concern is that the cold shower will trigger the Raynauds, then I don&#039;t know if I should continue, or stop to restore blood flow.

Any thoughts?  I would love to be more in control with any cold exposure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Todd!</p>
<p>I really enjoy your blog, and the writing on cold tolerance in particular.  I have Raynaud&#8217;s, which though minor, still leaves my fingers and/or toes completely white without blood flow after SOME cold exposure.  The triggers are unpredictable, as sometimes minimal cold sets it off, other times I do fine with fairly cold exposure.</p>
<p>Do you see any possibility that I could learn to moderate or eliminate this condition through cold showers, or cold immersion?  My main concern is that the cold shower will trigger the Raynauds, then I don&#8217;t know if I should continue, or stop to restore blood flow.</p>
<p>Any thoughts?  I would love to be more in control with any cold exposure.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Iceman by Eric</title>
		<link>http://gettingstronger.org/2012/01/the-iceman/comment-page-1/#comment-9333</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 22:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gettingstronger.org/?p=3678#comment-9333</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Todd, for clarifying that. I too don&#039;t think mixing cold and hot showers is a good idea - it made me sick with cold more than once. Years ago I read about Seneca&#039;s life time long &quot;cold plunges&quot; in the river in any season, amazing how you came to the same practice and the same philosophy. I can only finish with &quot;Vale, valete&quot; - which never translated so accurately!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Todd, for clarifying that. I too don&#8217;t think mixing cold and hot showers is a good idea &#8211; it made me sick with cold more than once. Years ago I read about Seneca&#8217;s life time long &#8220;cold plunges&#8221; in the river in any season, amazing how you came to the same practice and the same philosophy. I can only finish with &#8220;Vale, valete&#8221; &#8211; which never translated so accurately!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Iceman by Todd</title>
		<link>http://gettingstronger.org/2012/01/the-iceman/comment-page-1/#comment-9332</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 21:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gettingstronger.org/?p=3678#comment-9332</guid>
		<description>Hi Eric,

I like hearing from fellow Stoics.  I find Stoicism to be a congenial philosophy, but for some reason there has not been much interest in the Stoic philosophy by people posting comments here or on the forum.  And yet it is a philosophy with enormous practical value.

As to staying clean while showering cold:  It&#039;s not that hard.  The key is to choose soaps and shampoos that work well at low or moderate temperature.  I personally use coconut oil based soaps and shampoos, which maintain a good degree of surfactancy and &quot;slipperiness&quot; even in cold water. My favorite brands are &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kirksnatural.com/barsoap.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kirk&#039;s Original Coco Castile soap&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Suave-Naturals-Tropical-Extracts-Proteins/dp/B0000530LX&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Suave Natural Tropical Coconut shampoo&lt;/a&gt; and the related conditioner.   You may need to spend an extra 30 seconds lathering and rinsing in cold water compared to warm water, but that&#039;s no big deal.  If you are still not satisfied, then take a warm or lukewarm shower once a week or if you happen to get particularly sweaty or dirty.  

I&#039;m not in favor of frequent hot or warm showers or &quot;contrast baths&quot; involving quick alternation between warm and cold baths.  I may take a dip in the hot tub or take a warm shower once every 1-2 weeks.  But if you get under warm water on a daily basis, this seems to impair your ability to adapt to the cold.  Frequent exposure to warm water appears to undo or partially offset the advances made in cold water adaptation. 

The above comments are not based on deep science -- just my personal experience!  So I would be happy to hear contrary opinions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Eric,</p>
<p>I like hearing from fellow Stoics.  I find Stoicism to be a congenial philosophy, but for some reason there has not been much interest in the Stoic philosophy by people posting comments here or on the forum.  And yet it is a philosophy with enormous practical value.</p>
<p>As to staying clean while showering cold:  It&#8217;s not that hard.  The key is to choose soaps and shampoos that work well at low or moderate temperature.  I personally use coconut oil based soaps and shampoos, which maintain a good degree of surfactancy and &#8220;slipperiness&#8221; even in cold water. My favorite brands are <a href="http://www.kirksnatural.com/barsoap.html" rel="nofollow">Kirk&#8217;s Original Coco Castile soap</a> and <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Suave-Naturals-Tropical-Extracts-Proteins/dp/B0000530LX" rel="nofollow">Suave Natural Tropical Coconut shampoo</a> and the related conditioner.   You may need to spend an extra 30 seconds lathering and rinsing in cold water compared to warm water, but that&#8217;s no big deal.  If you are still not satisfied, then take a warm or lukewarm shower once a week or if you happen to get particularly sweaty or dirty.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not in favor of frequent hot or warm showers or &#8220;contrast baths&#8221; involving quick alternation between warm and cold baths.  I may take a dip in the hot tub or take a warm shower once every 1-2 weeks.  But if you get under warm water on a daily basis, this seems to impair your ability to adapt to the cold.  Frequent exposure to warm water appears to undo or partially offset the advances made in cold water adaptation. </p>
<p>The above comments are not based on deep science &#8212; just my personal experience!  So I would be happy to hear contrary opinions.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Calorie restriction and hormesis by Death Will Eat Itself (The Enormous Benefits of Autophagy, or Why You Should Stop Eating Once in Awhile) &#124; The Blog of J.D. Moyer</title>
		<link>http://gettingstronger.org/2010/05/calorie-restriction-and-hormesis/comment-page-1/#comment-9329</link>
		<dc:creator>Death Will Eat Itself (The Enormous Benefits of Autophagy, or Why You Should Stop Eating Once in Awhile) &#124; The Blog of J.D. Moyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 20:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gettingstronger.org/?p=625#comment-9329</guid>
		<description>[...] in-depth look at calorie restriction and hormesis on gettingstronger.com  Rate this:  Share this:TwitterFacebookStumbleUponRedditMoreDiggEmailPrint   This entry was posted [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in-depth look at calorie restriction and hormesis on gettingstronger.com  Rate this:  Share this:TwitterFacebookStumbleUponRedditMoreDiggEmailPrint   This entry was posted [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Iceman by Eric</title>
		<link>http://gettingstronger.org/2012/01/the-iceman/comment-page-1/#comment-9326</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 19:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gettingstronger.org/?p=3678#comment-9326</guid>
		<description>Todd, thank you for the blog - as a lifetime stoic I was amazed at your approach of combining philosophy with diet and exercise. I want to start cold showers but have a question. If I understand correctly you only take cold showers - how do you wash your self? I mean do you use soap and shampoo under cold shower just as usual? I find it very hard to rinse shampoo and soap off in cold water, so the question is - can I take warm shower first to wash and then a cold one after? So some reason I feel it will not be as beneficial. Would it be better to take morning shower warm and another one in the evening cold? I would appreciate your opinion on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd, thank you for the blog &#8211; as a lifetime stoic I was amazed at your approach of combining philosophy with diet and exercise. I want to start cold showers but have a question. If I understand correctly you only take cold showers &#8211; how do you wash your self? I mean do you use soap and shampoo under cold shower just as usual? I find it very hard to rinse shampoo and soap off in cold water, so the question is &#8211; can I take warm shower first to wash and then a cold one after? So some reason I feel it will not be as beneficial. Would it be better to take morning shower warm and another one in the evening cold? I would appreciate your opinion on this.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hormesis and the limbic brain by Todd</title>
		<link>http://gettingstronger.org/2012/01/hormesis-and-the-limbic-brain/comment-page-1/#comment-9318</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 05:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gettingstronger.org/?p=3474#comment-9318</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link, Beth.  Bozarth&#039;s concept of &quot;motivational toxicity&quot; is indeed interesting, particularly the idea that this arises not from excess dopamine per se, but rather from impairment to the inhibitory GABA circuitry that counterbalances it.  This results in the &quot;reward prediction error&quot; you refer to. The normal checks and balances are replaced by an open-ended circuit.

The question then becomes how to restore the normal balance and thereby recover a homeostatic ability to &quot;predict&quot; reward.  This can be a very difficult hole to dig out of, for serious addicts.  I think that sustained extinction is the only sure route, assisted by active cue exposure reconditioning and reinforcement of alternate pathways.  Some of the empirical support for this approach, as explored in the study by Conklin and Tiffany, is discussed in my post on &lt;a href=&quot;http://gettingstronger.org/2010/04/overcoming-addictions/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Overcoming Addictios&lt;/a&gt;.
&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link, Beth.  Bozarth&#8217;s concept of &#8220;motivational toxicity&#8221; is indeed interesting, particularly the idea that this arises not from excess dopamine per se, but rather from impairment to the inhibitory GABA circuitry that counterbalances it.  This results in the &#8220;reward prediction error&#8221; you refer to. The normal checks and balances are replaced by an open-ended circuit.</p>
<p>The question then becomes how to restore the normal balance and thereby recover a homeostatic ability to &#8220;predict&#8221; reward.  This can be a very difficult hole to dig out of, for serious addicts.  I think that sustained extinction is the only sure route, assisted by active cue exposure reconditioning and reinforcement of alternate pathways.  Some of the empirical support for this approach, as explored in the study by Conklin and Tiffany, is discussed in my post on <a href="http://gettingstronger.org/2010/04/overcoming-addictions/" rel="nofollow">Overcoming Addictios</a>.<br />
&#8220;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hormesis and the limbic brain by Beth@WeightMaven</title>
		<link>http://gettingstronger.org/2012/01/hormesis-and-the-limbic-brain/comment-page-1/#comment-9311</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth@WeightMaven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 23:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gettingstronger.org/?p=3474#comment-9311</guid>
		<description>Todd, have you seen this? http://addiction-dirkh.blogspot.com/2012/01/reward-and-punish-say-hello-to.html

I thought the concept of &quot;reward prediction error&quot; interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd, have you seen this? <a href="http://addiction-dirkh.blogspot.com/2012/01/reward-and-punish-say-hello-to.html" rel="nofollow">http://addiction-dirkh.blogspot.com/2012/01/reward-and-punish-say-hello-to.html</a></p>
<p>I thought the concept of &#8220;reward prediction error&#8221; interesting.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Iceman by Bill Strahan</title>
		<link>http://gettingstronger.org/2012/01/the-iceman/comment-page-1/#comment-9305</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Strahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gettingstronger.org/?p=3678#comment-9305</guid>
		<description>Something I&#039;ve played with for years.  I noticed when I got angry my body would heat up and I would start dripping with sweat.  Being curious, I started trying to extend the process, eventually finding I could do it voluntarily.  That probably happened over the span of a year or two.  

I worked another year or two at directing the heat at hands and feet, and eventually got to where I could snow ski in temperatures down to about 10f without gloves as long as my hands were dry.  Once they got wet, the wind chill in that temperature while skiing was more than I could overcome.  The hard part was being able to do it without continuous focus.  I did want to enjoy the skiing, not just focus on generating heat.  And it does require some focus.

There are times my wife has curled up next to me in bed and said &quot;Do that hot thing&quot; because she&#039;s cold, meaning heat myself up.  Makes me laugh, but within a few minutes she&#039;s scooting away saying she&#039;s too hot.  

I don&#039;t play with it much any more, but I can still break a sweat in room temperatures within about 5 minutes.

It&#039;s amazing what our bodies are capable of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something I&#8217;ve played with for years.  I noticed when I got angry my body would heat up and I would start dripping with sweat.  Being curious, I started trying to extend the process, eventually finding I could do it voluntarily.  That probably happened over the span of a year or two.  </p>
<p>I worked another year or two at directing the heat at hands and feet, and eventually got to where I could snow ski in temperatures down to about 10f without gloves as long as my hands were dry.  Once they got wet, the wind chill in that temperature while skiing was more than I could overcome.  The hard part was being able to do it without continuous focus.  I did want to enjoy the skiing, not just focus on generating heat.  And it does require some focus.</p>
<p>There are times my wife has curled up next to me in bed and said &#8220;Do that hot thing&#8221; because she&#8217;s cold, meaning heat myself up.  Makes me laugh, but within a few minutes she&#8217;s scooting away saying she&#8217;s too hot.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t play with it much any more, but I can still break a sweat in room temperatures within about 5 minutes.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s amazing what our bodies are capable of.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Iceman by Deepak</title>
		<link>http://gettingstronger.org/2012/01/the-iceman/comment-page-1/#comment-9297</link>
		<dc:creator>Deepak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 00:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gettingstronger.org/?p=3678#comment-9297</guid>
		<description>I have tried cold baths too a couple of times after reading 4 Hour Body but without using anything to increase my body temperature. I had similar experience that you mention here. After about 5min of immersing my whole body into water (except face), I didn&#039;t feel cold any more. I was shivering for the next 1.5hrs after I got out of the bath though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have tried cold baths too a couple of times after reading 4 Hour Body but without using anything to increase my body temperature. I had similar experience that you mention here. After about 5min of immersing my whole body into water (except face), I didn&#8217;t feel cold any more. I was shivering for the next 1.5hrs after I got out of the bath though.</p>
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